the other meaning of the word? what other meaning there are a few? i’m hearing dancing … and something about pins.. and footsteps..

OK, then there exists two completely different understandings of what “apologetics” is. Fair enough. I understand what you mean by the word, while I’m emphasizing difference between what I’m doing and the other meaning of the word.

Moving on, I intend to step out of this conversation now. And I intend to not climb into this kind of conversation again, though I might fail, again. And I will continue to pursue mengelmoes-based solutions to my biggest pains.

Obama says: “I will listen to you, especially when we disagree.” He’s interested in understanding how the other thinks and feels about something. Not so that he can then explain the other is wrong, but so that they can respect one another’s opinions.

funny how someone who’s motto is ‘change is comming’ and has non conservatism ideals gets used by a neocon (south park republican) as an example of ‘blind acceptance’ . I very much doubt obama would stand by idly ‘accepting’ of the ‘child rape to cure aids is great’ unless he was one of the child rapists? (which to my knowledge he is) And no it isnt poetic language , its a language specifically designed to communicate within the context of witchcraft. its like saying , lets write the code in pure assembler then pass it through a c++ interpreter without expecting fucked up results. What you’re saying is , wait , we have all this code , lets just add some c++ and make it work. Where i’m going , well, assembler is lame , old, give you way too much control over the pc and we wouldn’t use it for anything else unless there is absolutely no other way, we have all these possibly avenues so why use it at all at this point? esp if raping children is involved.

hugo , you need to take your own words and extrapolate them to the nth degree.. reduce the situation to the absurd. if it can’t be done then you know you’re onto something real. we do this with almost everything , the ‘golden rule’ is a good example of this. ‘you,re in power , but if you should loose power… then what? would u still be happy with what you’d have done? ‘

just get this stuff that theistic language is poetic language .. Its a tool by religion to maintain religion, to explain religion in religions terms.
I can’t respect that. to me it’s like using the bible to prove the bible. u design something that only makes sense to itself.

We’re not talking about the same things. I’m not doing “apologetics”. I’m not arguing that being a “faith head” is a good thing. I’m not saying we shouldn’t confront people on “idiotic child raping fantasies”. I am saying that it isn’t bad to encourage following a compassionate role model.

I get that that is what you want to achive .. but what you are doing is ‘apologetics’ for the being of a ‘faithhead’ . i’m sorry about x being a reality and despise it but y is just plain super. Can’t we keep y around despite of x? maybe give x a facelift, would that make u like us more? Why so eager to keep xyz around? why not try abc?

u noticed the grip isnt just with ‘young earth creationists’ rather the ‘template’ used, right? .

i’m not arguing agaist following a compassionate role model. I’m arguing that it isnt ‘following a compassionate role model’ that it is rather the opposite.

This optimism is the thing on which I can continue. Please don’t insist on me throwing out my optimism, unless you think my blog is an all-around bad contribution to society. (So in your opinion it has bad, but I hope you also recognise the good in my blog as well, and can agree that the good may outweigh the bad. And then permit me to walk my own path in life, which you don’t have to agree with and you don’t have to follow, but I ask for the freedom to follow my path, and some respect for some of the noble aspect of my choices, even if you the rest is deserving of no respect.)

ehm… do you think i’d be arguing u if i thought u /this blog was an all-around bad contribute to society if a moment ago i gave u one of the highest compliments possible? think about that.. quite possibly , part of allowing people to follow ‘their’ path is let other people point out the gravel that breaking everyones back? Have you considered that following the path doesn’t mean you have the right to follow it everywhere , anywhere? What happens when you path enters other peoples property without any other side route?(like expecting people to talk your personalized verion of theistic lang) and don’t say we’d have to uncompromisingly compromise.

ok, anyway .. i’m going to try comment less as this is obviously frustrating you ..

understanding yet why being a faith head is a bad thing and why apologetics is far worse than confronting people on their idiotic child raping fantasy?

We’re not talking about the same things. I’m not doing “apologetics”. I’m not arguing that being a “faith head” is a good thing. I’m not saying we shouldn’t confront people on “idiotic child raping fantasies”. I am saying that it isn’t bad to encourage following a compassionate role model.

At worst, I’m maybe just too optimistic about humanity’s ability to separate the following of a compassionate role model from young earth creationism. (I’m intentionally taking extremes here, that should be enough for this conversation.) This optimism is the thing on which I can continue. Please don’t insist on me throwing out my optimism, unless you think my blog is an all-around bad contribution to society. (So in your opinion it has bad, but I hope you also recognise the good in my blog as well, and can agree that the good may outweigh the bad. And then permit me to walk my own path in life, which you don’t have to agree with and you don’t have to follow, but I ask for the freedom to follow my path, and some respect for some of the noble aspect of my choices, even if you the rest is deserving of no respect.)

your saying that one isnt allowed to decern which are completely off the mark based on these tools is just plain frikken silly.

I never said that. And I believe that if you listened the way Obama would listen, you would realise that, and stop stereotyping me/my-words or sticking me/my-words in a box like I perceive you do.

understanding yet why being a faith head is a bad thing and why apologetics is far worse than confronting people on their idiotic child raping fantasy?

C’mon gerhard. Do you still not understand what my pain is with your way of communicating?

I’m sure obama would aprove

Obama says: “I will listen to you, especially when we disagree.” He’s interested in understanding how the other thinks and feels about something. Not so that he can then explain the other is wrong, but so that they can respect one another’s opinions.

Start bitching about how everyone is alloweed their opinion and that they shouldnt be smart asses, after all , you wouldnt want to be a bigot?

That is not what I’m saying. I’m saying poetic language is not the problem. There’s a HUGE difference between saying “poetic language is not the problem” and “respect witchcraft”.

How can you not get this difference, gerhard? What’s the point in me continuing to talk to you?

Did I explain in one of my comments what the questions are that you don’t ask? (It might have been in the comment that I lost.)

“What makes you think poetic language is unavoidable?” “Clearly you think the poetic language is not a problem… How do you then suggest we avoid the evils while accepting and embracing poetic language? What makes you think it isn’t better to just throw out the poetic language?”

I can’t remember getting these questions from you, ever. These questions might not have “why” in them, but they’re exactly the questions I’m referring to when I say “ask why”. The “why” is, “why is Hugo so adamant about this?”

I get the impression you don’t care about that, you don’t care about understanding my approach, because you seem to be so certain of yours being the best way.

Obama says: “I will listen to you, especially when we disagree.” And that is what I mean by taking a page out of Obama’s book. I really don’t get the impression that you’re listening to me. If you’re getting the impression I’m not listening to you, then there’s work to be done on my part as well. We can actually listen to one another without agreeing, you know…

And do you really think Obama would approve of your anti-theistic arguments? More than I do? Really? Are you kidding?!

I’m in no way saying _all_ realities are fake and counter productive but we can already tell which ones have a high probably of being counter productive and fake.

btw, christains do this already, just look at the treatment right now that scientology is getting …
Do you consider this bad?

In my culture , sleeping with babies to cure aids is a very bad thing. heinous. Why is it heinous? because we ‘know’ it damages the child both physically and psychologically. Now local culture dictates that it isnt as bad as that.
We have most of our people ( sciencist not the sangomas) say its bad . However , we got all these people who want to rape children based on their sangomas twisting of their reality to that they choose to ignore what we know.

So i’m all cool with you guys wanting pretend so you can rape children i just would prefer if you limited it to your children but alas, bases on several thousand years of ‘sangomarism’ raping as they please well, it would be idiotic to assume thats not going to happen at some point. Progress for sangomas , because they are conservative when it comes to change, is way too slow, and i can’t put up with my children being raped even once.

Best thing is , people are starting to fight and speak out, very loudly infact, about this raping children business, giving it the respect it actually deserves, but what do the sangoma worshippers do?
Start bitching about how everyone is alloweed their opinion and that they shouldnt be smart asses, after all , you wouldnt want to be a bigot? least being called a bigot is better than raping the children, at very least , you dont have to compromize on your morals.

understanding yet why being a faith head is a bad thing and why apologetics is far worse than confronting people on their idiotic child raping fantasy?

And no , i am not all knowing nor do i want to fullfill your dream of being a ‘messiah’. I just care that things progress and don’t revert to fucking 80 b.c. I’m sure obama would aprove

And only gerhard knows the truth. Only gerhard’s opinion is correct on this. Because gerhard is the all-knowing truth, the life, the way… All bow down to gerhard’s superior wisdom in this regard. All should speak gerhard’s English, because no other language is worthy of speaking about truth.

For fucking fuck’s sake gerhard, appreciate that people can have different opinions on things. And that you may be wrong.

You want everyone to live life in the same way you do? How arrogant! err? no. I just want the people in charge not to ground important things in religious thinking. nor do i want the general population to follow blind religiosity or the child abuse. like when your mom was diagnosed with cancer? did she? a) go to a homeopath who base things in fantasy land ? or b) go to a doctor? surly u’d want this kind of thinking to apply to politics, social system etc? Surly you can see why people going to a hemopath to cure cancer is wrong? Surly you can see why promoting people going to see a homeopath to cure cancer is wrong? why moral people can’t physically gel with the idea?

ok, i will delay the rest of the arguing until a later date depending on your reply to my other comment.

btw, if u want to hear very very interesting story creation myths , then i advise listening to local indigenous customs.

There’s a cool pastor-blogger in the Afrikaans blogosphere that does movies every now and then. Often fascinating! (Not always though. )